The Miss Organized Show

It Has to Be Their Idea

• Tracy Paye

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This episode explores the concept of “rebellion clutter”—a form of clutter rooted in unresolved emotional patterns, often linked to childhood dynamics and controlling relationships. Tracy Paye (Miss Organized) shares stories from her organizing career, including cautionary tales about stepping into homes where a spouse initiates the service without the other's consent. The core message: organizing must be a personal, empowered decision, not one driven by external pressure.

🧠 Key Takeaways & Concepts:

🔥 Rebellion Clutter Defined:

  • Rebellion clutter is clutter created or maintained as a form of defiance, often subconsciously.
  • It stems from childhood programming, especially in homes with overly controlling parents.
  • Example: “It’s my space and my stuff—no one can tell me what to do with it.”

⚠️ Real-Life Case Study:

  • Tracy shares an experience with a challenging client whose husband forced the organizing intervention.
  • The dynamic created resistance and sabotage—the woman retaliated by misusing his credit cards.
  • Lesson: Organizing imposed on someone breeds rebellion, not results.

💡 Relationship Dynamics & Clutter:

  • This rebellion dynamic often resurfaces in marriages.
  • One partner is typically the “clean” one; the other, emotionally tied to clutter.
  • The clash becomes a reenactment of childhood control struggles.

🚫 Lessons Learned (For Organizers & Listeners Alike):

  • Never take on a client if a spouse is the one pushing the service and the client hasn’t agreed.
  • Surprise decluttering or reorganizing (especially without consent) is disrespectful and damaging.
  • Empower the individual to take ownership of their space and their transformation.

🙋‍♀️ Empowerment and Boundaries:

  • Tracy emphasizes now only working with clients who are personally ready and willing to change.
  • Organizing is about much more than tips and tricks—it’s about psychology, identity, and healing.

💬 Favorite Quotes:

  • “It’s my stuff, my space. I’ll do whatever the hell I want.”
  • “They start sabotaging themselves, all in the name of proving nobody can tell them what to do.”
  • “Clutter is often a symptom of deeper relational and emotional patterns.”

Website:  MissOrganized

Book: If Clutter Could Talk....The Stories It Would Tell 


SPEAKER_01:

One of Momstown's favorite on-the-go snacks is B-Bold Energy Bar. B-Bold Bars was started by Stacy Madison, the founder of Stacy's Pita Chips. They are delicious energy bars made of nut butters, nuts, maple, wildflower, honey, and chia. There are two flavors, almond butter and peanut butter. They are gluten-free, dairy-free, kosher, and have 18 grams of whole grain. You can find them at Wegmans, Harris Teeter, Publix, and online at bboldbars.com or Amazon. You can follow them on Instagram at You guys are definitely going to want to try them. Welcome to Momstown 365, the daily podcast for mom creators. I'm Mary Goulet.

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm Heather Ryder. And we're shining a light on you, you mom creator. We're bringing you tips, tricks, shortcuts, and breakthroughs. And we are here again with Tracy Paye, our resident, misorganized, Momstown expert.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, an expert like none

SPEAKER_00:

other. Expert, I mean, honestly. You need your own show. That's what I've been saying. Where is this show? Her own show on the Momstown Podcast Network.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, well, that's going to happen. Duh. But getting, gosh, man, you've been on local TV. Yeah. Yeah. Many times. But you have half the amount of time. expound on your wisdom.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. Yeah. You've got like a three-minute segment on the news and, you know, three or four. They try to control you. No. You can't get through anything in a two-minute package. No. No, no, no. This is way more fun. That's why I never get into any of like the psychology. Most of this stuff I do on television, it's not about the psychology at all because everybody wants to know the tips and the tricks and the, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Like we talk about tips, tricks, shortcuts, and breakthroughs. Yeah. But we're really like this is. We're diving into the deep stuff. We're diving into the deep stuff. And this is what people want to understand. Yeah. Like we just had a huge. This is what people need to understand. We just had a, in one of our previous episodes, had a huge breakthrough and my closet. Right? In just minutes. And my closet has to be the same as a lot of other... Are you listening? It's got to be the same as a lot of other closets out there. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

I go through my closet. It's organized. There's nothing on the floor. That's fine. But there's stuff that if I went, haven't worn that in four years. You know what I mean? That type of thing. And these jeans fit... But they look stupid because they're out of date

SPEAKER_00:

by 20 years. Do jeans actually go out of date? And then they come back in. So if you had like those high-waisted jeans, you know how they go?

SPEAKER_01:

No, that's not happening. No? All right. Today, Tracy, explain to us what is rebellion clutter?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, boy, rebellion clutter. It is just really something else. It took me years to figure this out. And how I figured this out was I was at a client's house one day, and this was a really tough client. Of all the clients I've dealt with, this is one of the tougher clients that I've had, just really mentally challenging person, just challenged me on everything. Her husband was the one who called me. And by the way, I will never do this again. I wrote a chapter in my book about this situation where it's the husband basically threatening the wife, saying, I'm going to divorce you unless you let me have an organizer. Because they get to that point where they're so exasperated and that's their only— Was it a hoarding situation?

SPEAKER_01:

It was definitely a hoarding situation. It's almost as bad as buying her a vacuum.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. Yeah. But the thing is that it just creates a dynamic that it's a horrible dynamic for a third party

SPEAKER_00:

to step into. Well, because she hadn't made the decision to do this. Right. Absolutely. And that's how this plays out. And he was telling her what to do.

SPEAKER_02:

And this is how this rebellion clutter plays out. So one day we're sitting at the table and I'm just trying everything I could to mentally get through to this woman. And her husband, he did the technique that he always does, which I agree with this technique. I call it not staging. It's consolidating, right, where you just go around the room and you pick up all the loose ends. and you put them all in one little spot in front of you so that it's more efficient to do it that way. So that's what he would do. She would lay her stuff all over the place so he would go and gather it up and then put in a little right there in front of her. Well, that pissed her off. Can I say that word? Sorry. But it really made her mad.

SPEAKER_00:

There's a lot of things you can say in podcasting that you can't

SPEAKER_02:

say on it. Oh, don't

SPEAKER_00:

even get me

SPEAKER_02:

started. Give me a bottle of whiskey and we'll really start talking.

SPEAKER_01:

There it turns on podcasting. It's a whole new angle. I do have a wine fridge in my studio. It's

SPEAKER_02:

true. I'm sure it is and I'm sure we'll be talking about that again. But what he did was, oh my God, it was so funny. He took her stuff, threw it on the table while I was sitting in front of them and walks away. But that's embarrassing and disrespectful. 100%. And he walks away just all like, walks away and she looks at me and she goes, and that's why I spend money on his credit cards.

UNKNOWN:

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02:

And I realized there was nothing I could do. Everything I had done at that point to try to help this woman and get their house, it was all going to go right back to the way it was instantly.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and then he doesn't even recognize that he's the source. He doesn't recognize because he thinks he's right. And on the surface, he is. But underneath it all, he's creating something. this feeling in her. 100%.

SPEAKER_02:

And she's just defending herself. But here's the thing, is that rebellion clutter starts in childhood. Your organizational habits, it all starts in childhood. It's the programming that you receive. That's what a good majority of my book is about, is the programming behind the messages we got as children around stuff in space. And what happens, I've noticed, is that people who grew up with overly controlling parents... a lot of, you know, I hate to say it, I have OCD. So, you know, I'm sorry on behalf of everybody who's had to experience somebody who has OCD. It's not always fun. I've learned how to manage it and not make it controlling so that it can, you know, really just take over somebody's life. You know, I really was careful about that with my daughter because I saw how damaging it could be in parental relationships. And what happens is when somebody goes up with a controlling parent who says, your room is going to be like this. You're going to have this kind of furniture. You're going to have these colors on the walls. You're going to hang your clothes. I know you want to fold them, but you're going to hang them. You know, I want things done this way, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. A lot of times it winds up happenings. They grow up and they get this print programming. That's the rebellion programming, which is it's my stuff. It's my space. I'll do whatever the hell I want. And like what we were saying earlier about I'll cut off my nose to spite my face. So basically they start sabotaging themselves all in the name of trying to prove that nobody can tell them what to do with their state, but they're hurting themselves in the process. And then the other really interesting thing, it almost always shows up in the marriages. So nine times out of ten, if they haven't fixed that and haven't realized that pattern in themselves that they have this programming that makes them want to rebel against somebody who's trying to have a clean space or telling them how to set up the space or whatever, then it comes into the marriage relationship. And then that whole kid dynamic, it plays out. So I almost never go into homes where both of them have the same kind of style. There's usually one who's more of the clutter bug, the more of the emotional one. And then there's usually the one who's more of the type A, likes things clean. And it's a clash of the titans. So

SPEAKER_01:

whatever happened with that

SPEAKER_02:

client? Oh, that's funny you ask that question because I think I worked with her for months. I think I would go back like maybe at least twice a week for maybe three, four, five months, whatever, something like that. And I think I had literally three hours left of that contract left. And the woman, she just finally sent me over the edge. I can't remember what she, I remember at one point she even says something like, okay, I'm getting really angry now. It's really, it's probably better if you just leave. And I was still at that place where I'm just like, no, you know, let's work it out. You know, let's work through this. Now I don't deal with that anymore. You know, if somebody gives me that kind of attitude,

SPEAKER_00:

forget about it. She did not want you there.

SPEAKER_02:

She didn't want me there. That was the bottom line.

SPEAKER_00:

So every time she saw you, she was just pushing me away. It had nothing to do with you. It had everything to do with her relationship with her husband. Oh, 100%. And the thing is, it's a hard

SPEAKER_02:

situation. And that's why I will never do the situation again. where the husband's calling me and saying, like, my wife needs help. Okay, no, I won't do it anymore because it automatically, and I understand this. I'm a woman. I wouldn't be too happy if some woman comes into my house and starts, you know, trying to see what needs to be fixed because then the interpretation is that it's my

SPEAKER_00:

fault. Especially looking as pretty as you are. You know what I mean? Well, nobody wants your husband to bring in another woman and say, oh, this is the person who's going to straighten you out. No. That's

SPEAKER_02:

not cool. No. And I wish I knew that at the beginning of my career because I

SPEAKER_00:

wouldn't have put myself in those situations. How many things have we learned over the years in our all respective careers on, oh, I would never do that again. Well, absolutely. You just

SPEAKER_02:

learn, right? I just actually had a client call me just the other day. This was one of my best clients. And his wife and I really, really connected during the process. It was a very emotional process for her. But her and I really got really connected. And sometimes I do that with my clients. I get real, like I get into friendships with them. But anyways, we made some good progress. But again, I knew it was one of those situations that it wasn't going to change. And he just called me the other day. He says, I want to do a surprise. She's going to be out of town and I want you to come here. And I was like, have you told her that? He's like, no, no, I was going to leave it a surprise. I'm like, oh yeah, no, you know, I am not stepping into that situation for one. You better have the conversation with her. And he did. And I said, okay, I followed up, you know, okay. Which he says it was a disaster. I was like, oh, thank

SPEAKER_00:

God. Well, can you imagine coming home and then somebody's been rifling through all your stuff and doing, you know? No, no, no. Yeah, a friend of mine,

SPEAKER_01:

her mom would fly out and rearrange her kitchen. Without her permission? Right, just go in and rearrange stuff on her. Oh, my God. What a nightmare. That's a secondary, but this, with the husband doing it, no, that's not good. No. So, yeah, boy,

SPEAKER_00:

that would be offensive.

SPEAKER_02:

It would absolutely, you know, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But this is all tied to relationships and what you're talking about, like the overall thing about uncluttering and having this be your own decision and you coming into this and how you want to live your life from the inside out. That's

SPEAKER_01:

right. All right, Tracy Paye, thank you, MissOrganized.com. All right, head over to Momstown.com and sign up for the newsletter. We're creating something super special, and we want you to be part of it.

SPEAKER_00:

Be bold, be creative. Momstown 365, here for you every day.

SPEAKER_01:

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